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the alternative minimum tax which all of us, again, agree should not apply to 26 million americans. we agree on that. let's vote on that. let's create that certainty and move forward. let's create a path to move forward to deal with comprehensive tax policy in a fair and responsible way and let's deal with the deficit and the balance in a fair away. john boehner basically said no to all of that. and that's really not acceptable leadership. >> is there any -- should harry reid amend the bill that the house sent over at all? the fact is, harry reid has -- needs to add republican cooperation. he wants to say, look, this isn't a game. this isn't show. you know, i can bring out a bill, pass a bill. if john boehner says i'm not going to look at that, what's the point? let's make something happen here. that is what the american people are looking for. we're concerned about the fiscal and economic policies. there's a recovery period that we're experiencing to put more challenges before the economy both consumers and investors. let's create certainty. let's make sure that we pass tax cuts fo
the alternative minimum tax which all of us, again, agree should not apply to 26 million americans. we agree on that. let's vote on that. let's create that certainty and move forward. let's create a path to move forward to deal with comprehensive tax policy in a fair and responsible way and let's deal with the deficit and the balance in a fair away. john boehner basically said no to all of that. and that's really not acceptable leadership. >> is there any -- should harry reid amend the...
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let's go back to the tax. your paycheck is going down 2%. everyone's taxes go up. it will really have an effect is when people get their first paycheck in january and the christmas bills are due, the average working class family will have their paycheck drop not 2% but closer to 5%. democrats see it as leverage, but it hurts real people for the short-term. >> when you talk about it, absolutely. if we go over the cliff without changing anything, this will be the end of unemployment benefits for more than two million americans. people who cannot wait a couple of months to get the money back and don't have the safety net. this is a very serious situation for some americans. on this show we have a slope and not a cliff. for some it is an immediate pain cliff situation. >> we should differentiate between the things that are really a cliff. unemployment and income taxes and the other things like the spending cuts draw out over a year. the sequester and other things. you wouldn't have to worry about that. those things can be fixed. the democrats don't have a sense of urge
let's go back to the tax. your paycheck is going down 2%. everyone's taxes go up. it will really have an effect is when people get their first paycheck in january and the christmas bills are due, the average working class family will have their paycheck drop not 2% but closer to 5%. democrats see it as leverage, but it hurts real people for the short-term. >> when you talk about it, absolutely. if we go over the cliff without changing anything, this will be the end of unemployment...
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and all tax rates will go up on income tax and estate taxes and all the bad stuff will happen, and how that's good politics. >> look, politicians are creatures of narrow self-interest. from the self-interested standpoint of a republican house member from a safe district who fears a primary challenge, yes, it's better for them to wait three days, cast -- go over the cliff, cast a vote to cut taxes and basically screw all the people who are going to be affected by it preserving their own jobs than it is to agree to a tax increase now and risk the wrath of the tea party right two years from now. >> chris, let me ask you about another possible, i hope it doesn't happen. next tuesday or next wednesday when the market reopens on january 2nd and they fully realize at that point that this cliff has been gone over and the congress has failed to meet its own targets which it set itself when it set this cliff up, who will pay the price if, say, the market drops 500 or 1,000 points and keeps dropping for two or three days and that creates the chances for a second dip, a second recession? who will
and all tax rates will go up on income tax and estate taxes and all the bad stuff will happen, and how that's good politics. >> look, politicians are creatures of narrow self-interest. from the self-interested standpoint of a republican house member from a safe district who fears a primary challenge, yes, it's better for them to wait three days, cast -- go over the cliff, cast a vote to cut taxes and basically screw all the people who are going to be affected by it preserving their own...
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everybody's taxes would go up. you won't feel that immediately with most of these things, but with unemployment insurance and others, you will. there will be a grass roots feeling among americans. if you look at the polls, republicans will get blamed. they themselves are wary of this. that's why democrats would politically feel inclined to go over the cliff. there will be so much on republicans, this might be the only way they agree to raise taxes. >> not to mention in the next senate too. 55 democrats and four seats in the house. >> quickly for both of you, we covered this today. i'm surprised by the lack of urgency. does that surprise you as well? >> this is not the debt ceiling. say we are working through the weekends and training mcconnell and biden on the phone and the president involved. really to take christmas off facing the fiscal cliff in a week shows how little optimism there is. >> i completely agree. we spent many late nights in the capital and is it doesn't seem like that is going to happen. >> amazin
everybody's taxes would go up. you won't feel that immediately with most of these things, but with unemployment insurance and others, you will. there will be a grass roots feeling among americans. if you look at the polls, republicans will get blamed. they themselves are wary of this. that's why democrats would politically feel inclined to go over the cliff. there will be so much on republicans, this might be the only way they agree to raise taxes. >> not to mention in the next senate...
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over that level, any monies made over that mop any will be taxed at now a 39.6% rate instead of a 35% rate. essentially going back to the clinton era rates, before the bush administration initiated their tax cuts. many democrats were angry about that. we had one tom harken take the floor and voice his opposition. but it is flying through the senate now. it looks like it's going to pass with overwhelming support. it's going to put john boehner, the republican speaker of the house, in a very tough jam. folks want this to happen. this deal has been struck. and maura, one other thing, these mandatory cuts, you may have heard of them called the sequester that were to go into effect today that were the result of the last budget deal that they made. they were to be delayed for two months that will coincide with the debt ceiling that needed to be raised. the united states exceeding its federal debt. that requires an act of congress to raise it. so all of these things are going to come together in two months time and people are already now predicting a fight, if you can believe this, even bigg
over that level, any monies made over that mop any will be taxed at now a 39.6% rate instead of a 35% rate. essentially going back to the clinton era rates, before the bush administration initiated their tax cuts. many democrats were angry about that. we had one tom harken take the floor and voice his opposition. but it is flying through the senate now. it looks like it's going to pass with overwhelming support. it's going to put john boehner, the republican speaker of the house, in a very...
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so you need policy consensus, some tax reduction, some investment and education, and some tax breaks that will help sort of states specialize in different industries and attract them. >> let's end where we started. some criticisms coming out from ips saying the president has left some things on the table here. the estate taxes one of those that they bring to bear here. they also talk about hedge fund managers specifically being ability to get favorable tax rates there, too. how has the administration done with this? >> it's sort of paralysis on this issue. you know, the administration -- the republicans -- what we seed with a fiscal cliff and what we saw in our series is the ability to create consense politically is hurting us tremendously, economically. the earlier guest was talking about how these are self-inflected problems, and that's what's happening. tax rates will go up across the board. the condition does look like it will slip back, and it's a global change in the economy. again people with skills competing globally and doing very very well at the top. we're not addressing f
so you need policy consensus, some tax reduction, some investment and education, and some tax breaks that will help sort of states specialize in different industries and attract them. >> let's end where we started. some criticisms coming out from ips saying the president has left some things on the table here. the estate taxes one of those that they bring to bear here. they also talk about hedge fund managers specifically being ability to get favorable tax rates there, too. how has the...
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extend the tax cuts only for the 250 and below. you kick the sequester down the road, you patch the amt and medicare fix. all that. if the speaker is willing to put that to a vote, i suspect it would pass in the house and we actually could have a compromise before the end of the year. but it would pass with mostly democratic votes. and the likelihood he's going to want to do that seems to me very slim. that's why i think we're probably going over the cliff. now, my hope is that it's more of a bungee jump than a cliff dive. because on the other side there's some dynamics that change such that republicans can vote for a big tax decrease off of what will then be current law. >> jared, you've got a post -- i just want to go back for a moment. while this ping-pong game is going on in washington, you've got a post on your blog showing the real drag this is having on consumer confidence. so, i mean, what can the president do to protect the economy and try to restore some degree of confidence while these negotiations are going on? >> i thi
extend the tax cuts only for the 250 and below. you kick the sequester down the road, you patch the amt and medicare fix. all that. if the speaker is willing to put that to a vote, i suspect it would pass in the house and we actually could have a compromise before the end of the year. but it would pass with mostly democratic votes. and the likelihood he's going to want to do that seems to me very slim. that's why i think we're probably going over the cliff. now, my hope is that it's more of a...
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>> it might be but if you did what they wanted to do and kept all of the tax increase -- tax cuts, you'd add $4.6 trillion to the deficit. so this can't really be about the deficit even if that's what they're telling themselves. you know, there are 30 to 60 really, really conservative republicans in that caucus, and if you're going to give them a kind of veto power, you're never going to get anything through the house in the next two years that can pass the senate. this is a real crisis of governance and it looked like boehner was facing up to that. congressman yarmuth had praised him ten hours ago because you could pass something, i think, with a modest number of republican votes. so i think this meeting they're having now, it could be about tactics, about how to teal with the mes we're about to go into, but there may be some republicans standing up and saying do we really want to throw us over the cliff in this way? i think this is one of the most important meetings the republican party has had since their convention and maybe more so. >> e.j., we have one more minute. i want to get yo
>> it might be but if you did what they wanted to do and kept all of the tax increase -- tax cuts, you'd add $4.6 trillion to the deficit. so this can't really be about the deficit even if that's what they're telling themselves. you know, there are 30 to 60 really, really conservative republicans in that caucus, and if you're going to give them a kind of veto power, you're never going to get anything through the house in the next two years that can pass the senate. this is a real crisis...
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and the pledge is slowly, grover norquist, anti-tax pledge, which is no way to run a business or the government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. and that thing has haunted us for a long time and is slowly losing. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine in part, karl rove, people thought if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very smart on election night over at that other network. >> we only have two people left who may please me by choosing donald trump. alex wagner, the biggest loser of 2012? >> donald trump -- >> correct, correct, you get the ipad. >> i hate to disappoint you, it is shelden addelson -- the house lost. >> steve. >> i want an ipad, but the big loser, the name for generations, the gold standard in public opinion polling. gallup, all of october, on election day said romney has an advantage, going to win this, and people are going to look more skepticalally at the gallup polls. >> let's see if silver comes up in the category, biggest winner, again, i'm going to go first, because once again, i couldn't be m
and the pledge is slowly, grover norquist, anti-tax pledge, which is no way to run a business or the government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. and that thing has haunted us for a long time and is slowly losing. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine in part, karl rove, people thought if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very smart on election night over at that other network. >> we only have two people left...
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and the pledge is slowly, grover norquist, anti-tax pledge, which is no way to run a business or the government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. and that thing has haunted us for a long time and is slowly losing. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine has helped in part make joy's rupert murdoch which is karl rove. people thought if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very smart on election night over at that other network. >> we only have two people left who may please me by choosing donald trump. alex wagner, the biggest loser of 2012? >> donald trump -- >> correct, correct, you get the ipad. >> i hate to disappoint you, it is shelden addelson -- the house is always supposed to win, and the house lost big time. >> great. that was great. >> steve, biggest loser. >> i want an ipad, but the big loser, the name for generations, the gold standard in public opinion polling -- gallugallup. gallup, all of october, on election day said romney has an advantage, going to win this, and people are going to look more skepticalally
and the pledge is slowly, grover norquist, anti-tax pledge, which is no way to run a business or the government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. and that thing has haunted us for a long time and is slowly losing. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine has helped in part make joy's rupert murdoch which is karl rove. people thought if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very smart on election night over at that other...
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people are not propose iing mak the taxes like them. john boehner could not even pass the tax proposal he passed over there. he said no, can't do that. didn't he bring it up for a vote? >> tonight, speaker boehner's office put out this statement. >> joining me now are our guests. clearly the positioning game continues. harry reid saying we did our job months ago. do you think we til would be@posturing stage at the end of that white house meeting tomorrow? >> in your introduction you made the fundamental point here which is that this agreement before the end of the year, simply cannot go forward unless john by nor is willing to let it do so with majority democrats in the house. if we go over the curve as you put it, they can vote for a large tax decrease becaused off of the new rates that would be reset. they can say we votes to cut taxes for 98% of households. but it is the only scenario that i cap see out there in the near term. >> the building that read has passed. let's lis ep to what mitch mcconnell said about that? >> the senate bi
people are not propose iing mak the taxes like them. john boehner could not even pass the tax proposal he passed over there. he said no, can't do that. didn't he bring it up for a vote? >> tonight, speaker boehner's office put out this statement. >> joining me now are our guests. clearly the positioning game continues. harry reid saying we did our job months ago. do you think we til would be@posturing stage at the end of that white house meeting tomorrow? >> in your...
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this tax deal would also create a perm naanent fix for the alternative minimum tax and extend unemployment insurance for 2 million americans. the president made it clear what his top priority is in any deal. >> preventing that tax hike has been my top priority. because the last thing folks like the folks up here on the stage can afford right now is to pay an extra $2,000 in taxes next year. middle class families can't afford it. businesses can't afford it. our economy can't afford it. >> just an hour later, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell signalled his agreement with the president. >> so i agree, let's pass the tax relief portion now. let's take what's been agreed to and get moving. we all want to protect tax pairs and we can get it done now. >> however, despite what sounds like good news, there will be no vote in the house tonight even in the house reaches a deal. in fact, the senate has adjourned until tomorrow. >> joining me now when we talk a couple of hours ago, there wouldn't be a vote on either side. but maybe something from the senate tonight? quite possibly. aparentally, th
this tax deal would also create a perm naanent fix for the alternative minimum tax and extend unemployment insurance for 2 million americans. the president made it clear what his top priority is in any deal. >> preventing that tax hike has been my top priority. because the last thing folks like the folks up here on the stage can afford right now is to pay an extra $2,000 in taxes next year. middle class families can't afford it. businesses can't afford it. our economy can't afford it....
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i mean, there are odds and ends, provisions on something called the state tax, estate tax, death tax or t-- other tax provisions something that ensnares the middle class taxpayers, it is an old law, some three decades old. that will be taken off the books, as well. there are medicare payments to doctors that are going to be reinstated every year. this is sort of a ritual that we go through every year. more things for people to dislike, there are going to be things where people are really going to have to hold their nose if they are going to pull the lever, and vote yes on this legislation and avoid having something catastrophic happen down the road here in terms of taxes, and in terms of what would happen to the larger economy, melissa. >> judging from what you just said it almost sounds like there is a likelihood possibly that it wouldn't pass in the house, is that your feeling? >> i wouldn't call it a likelihood, or a probability at this point. i think it is guaranteed there are going to be conservatives who are extremely upset about that. as a matter of fact over the course of the
i mean, there are odds and ends, provisions on something called the state tax, estate tax, death tax or t-- other tax provisions something that ensnares the middle class taxpayers, it is an old law, some three decades old. that will be taken off the books, as well. there are medicare payments to doctors that are going to be reinstated every year. this is sort of a ritual that we go through every year. more things for people to dislike, there are going to be things where people are really going...
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whose taxes will go up? people who earn more than 250,000 a year or people who earn more than 450,000 a year? republicans want to see the 450,000 threshold and democrats, 250,000. you need a few republicans in the house and democrats in the senate. it's more likely to be the 400,000 threshold. something the president offered. what does this do about taxes on inherited estates? currently, an estate worth $5 million or more gets taxed at a 35% rate. will that stay or change at all? and all of the automatic budget cuts we've deputy talking about for a year. nothing that would suggest that something will come up, later perhaps by march when they talk about the debt ceiling. >> he's talking about later in march, talking about a small deal being done now, which means we have to be back doing this all over again. >> yeah, the only thing on the table at this point are the tax rates extending bush tax cuts and a whole suite of things that were part of the fiscal cliff that aren't going to be touched. we'll have the d
whose taxes will go up? people who earn more than 250,000 a year or people who earn more than 450,000 a year? republicans want to see the 450,000 threshold and democrats, 250,000. you need a few republicans in the house and democrats in the senate. it's more likely to be the 400,000 threshold. something the president offered. what does this do about taxes on inherited estates? currently, an estate worth $5 million or more gets taxed at a 35% rate. will that stay or change at all? and all of the...
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not through any tax breaks or anything like that. but through getting back to work and getting their paychecks back up. that's what they want to do. >> now, governor, you have had to deal with people of opposing parties. you've had to compromise. you've seen them compromise. that's what government does. but when you get inflexible people that seem to not understand the pain of the ordinary american, how do you break this gridlock? >> well, it's very hard. and the point you made, rev, is a very good one. the president did move with entitlements and it did anger a cig n significant portion of his base. but the president agrees that you can't set this nation's economy on a healthy path that cease going to take care of our deficit and make it a managinin bart of gdp. he knows we can't asked the republicans to raise it 1.2, 1.3 trillion in revenue. he's reached out and made cig nif kant concessions and the response to that was nothing. it is pathetic. >> jaret, let me ask you, if we go over the cliff, what ps? is there not an immediate im
not through any tax breaks or anything like that. but through getting back to work and getting their paychecks back up. that's what they want to do. >> now, governor, you have had to deal with people of opposing parties. you've had to compromise. you've seen them compromise. that's what government does. but when you get inflexible people that seem to not understand the pain of the ordinary american, how do you break this gridlock? >> well, it's very hard. and the point you made,...
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>> well, the thing that will get them piqued is that tax rates. obama is preferring a $250,000 threshold, but in the process of trying to hammer out the deal, it is raised to $400,000 or $500,0 $500,000, and the base is going to be angry about that, and that is offset by satisfaction that some of the entitlement reforms that the president had signed off on earlier such as changing the structure for social security will not likely be in this deal, and obviously, everything remains to be seen, and the estate tax is a big sticking point, because obama wants to see it go up, and the senate republicans will insist that it stay at the current rate. >> thank you, robert costa and sam stein. we will be back in a moment. this is "hardball," the place for politics. >>> welcome back to hardball. what will a deal look like if there is one? and who is going to wind up giving up more on the tax cuts for wealthy americans? harry reid insists $250,000 is a threshold, but it may not hold. joining me now is josh green of bloomberg business week. josh, for the marke
>> well, the thing that will get them piqued is that tax rates. obama is preferring a $250,000 threshold, but in the process of trying to hammer out the deal, it is raised to $400,000 or $500,0 $500,000, and the base is going to be angry about that, and that is offset by satisfaction that some of the entitlement reforms that the president had signed off on earlier such as changing the structure for social security will not likely be in this deal, and obviously, everything remains to be...
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the affect of taxes would have changed. then it is, in fact, a tax cut season. not a tax increase season. again, those mechanics can be adjusted somewhat, but there are real practical elements that go beyond the political wrangling that will be dealing with if, in fact, we get -- if we get a deal, and then it will be sort of a countdown to the clerical staff getting it done. chris. >> as anyone who has ever bought a house can atus to, it takes time just to sign your name to lots of documents. >> exactly. >> i want to go to you. you know, this news about president obama coming on at 1:30 p.m. came just moments ago. have you had a chance to do any reporting? do we expect, this doesn't sound from reporting like is he announcing the deal. what will he do? do we have any idea? >> my reporting mampz kelly's reporting. it does not appear as though president obama will be announcing a deal he will be speaking with middle class americans behind him, and he will send the message that if they do not act by john 1st, the average american will see their taxes go up by about
the affect of taxes would have changed. then it is, in fact, a tax cut season. not a tax increase season. again, those mechanics can be adjusted somewhat, but there are real practical elements that go beyond the political wrangling that will be dealing with if, in fact, we get -- if we get a deal, and then it will be sort of a countdown to the clerical staff getting it done. chris. >> as anyone who has ever bought a house can atus to, it takes time just to sign your name to lots of...
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and i don't see it as a tax increase. taxes are going up under current law. i -- if pif i could stop them from going up for everyone i would. it takes a democratic senate, a democrat president to cooperate. it makes sense to save the maximum of taxpayers. that's not a tax increase, that's making perm what are temporary tax cuts for the overwhelming majority of americans. >> if there isn't a deal on fiscal cliff or if it's narrow, if it covers the bare minimum and there's a lot of issues still to be worked out, there's been a lot of disagreement about what that means in the short term, just say through january or february. do you think it would be catastrophic? do you think that there -- >> it's not -- >> it's been overstated? >> it's not catastrophic. but i think the failure to reach a larger deal will be something democrats look back and regret. once the revenue issue's taken care of -- and it will be taken care of quickly -- we're on to the real issues where we have leverage and they don't, that's spending and entitlement issues. there's a sequester itself,
and i don't see it as a tax increase. taxes are going up under current law. i -- if pif i could stop them from going up for everyone i would. it takes a democratic senate, a democrat president to cooperate. it makes sense to save the maximum of taxpayers. that's not a tax increase, that's making perm what are temporary tax cuts for the overwhelming majority of americans. >> if there isn't a deal on fiscal cliff or if it's narrow, if it covers the bare minimum and there's a lot of issues...
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the nonpartisan tax policy center calculate that is the average middle class family would see its tax rates -- its tax bills rise next year by $2,000. the fiscal cliff isn't the only thing rattling the economy. in just a few weeks lawmakers will begin battling over the debt ceiling. you may recall that in the summer of 2011 the debt limit standoff led to the first ever downgrade of the nation's credit rating. joining us now from capitol hill is cnbc's aman jabbers. appreciate you helping us make sense of all of this. >> happy new year. thank you for having me. >> on a less happy note, there are economists who are saying this whole fight over the fiscal cliff, the rangeling in washington has already caused a hit on the economy. can you explain sort of what the impact of the debate has been. >> you dw definitely seen it. ju as early as friday when we report that the president was not making his new offer with offers down at the white house. we saw the stock market sell off rather dramatically just in those couple of minutes as that news was coming out. i got to say that over the past 24
the nonpartisan tax policy center calculate that is the average middle class family would see its tax rates -- its tax bills rise next year by $2,000. the fiscal cliff isn't the only thing rattling the economy. in just a few weeks lawmakers will begin battling over the debt ceiling. you may recall that in the summer of 2011 the debt limit standoff led to the first ever downgrade of the nation's credit rating. joining us now from capitol hill is cnbc's aman jabbers. appreciate you helping us...
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they want to extend tax cuts on incomes below $250,000, prolong unemployment benefits and delay those sweeping spending cuts. while many republicans oppose new taxes for anyone, senator kay bailey hutchison says she's looking for compromise, alluding to house speaker john boehner's plan "b" that was met with stiff opposition from his own party. >> i think $250,000 is too low a threshold. a lot of working people who are couples would exceed that, and i don't think we need that kind of shock to the system. however, i've talked to some of my democratic colleagues, and they are saying maybe in the $400,000 or $500,000 category we could set a benchmark. i do think it is essential that we start talking about what amount can be passed on a bipartisan basis, because you know, i'm one who believes you shouldn't tax anyone right now. i would have supported plan "b." >> according to a gallup poll, americans are less optimistic that washington will strike a deal. 50% now believe an agreement is likely, an eight-point drop from earlier this month. president obama, meanwhile, will be back in washin
they want to extend tax cuts on incomes below $250,000, prolong unemployment benefits and delay those sweeping spending cuts. while many republicans oppose new taxes for anyone, senator kay bailey hutchison says she's looking for compromise, alluding to house speaker john boehner's plan "b" that was met with stiff opposition from his own party. >> i think $250,000 is too low a threshold. a lot of working people who are couples would exceed that, and i don't think we need that...
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float the idea of a tax increase in his state. well, it's about the need to beef up the military personnel in case civil war breaks out in case president obama got elected. here's jung herks edd on that one. >> i'm thinking worst-case scenario. civil unrest, civil disobedience, civil war, maybe. we're not talking just a few riots here and demonstrations. we're talking lexington, concord, take-up-arms and get rid of the guy. the sheriff, i said are you going to back me? he said yeah, i'll back you. >> that was his idea of the worst-case-scenario. here's iowa u.s. congressman steve king with how president obama's mother managed to convince us all that her son was born in hawaii, not in kenya. >> i looked into that before he was sworn into the presidency. we look sbood the library of congress and we found the microfiche of two newspapers, only two newspapers in hawaii. each of them had published the birth of barack obama. that doesn't mean that there aren't some other explanations on how they might have announced that telegram from k
float the idea of a tax increase in his state. well, it's about the need to beef up the military personnel in case civil war breaks out in case president obama got elected. here's jung herks edd on that one. >> i'm thinking worst-case scenario. civil unrest, civil disobedience, civil war, maybe. we're not talking just a few riots here and demonstrations. we're talking lexington, concord, take-up-arms and get rid of the guy. the sheriff, i said are you going to back me? he said yeah, i'll...
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threshold at $450,000 a year for taxes to go up. republicans are looking for $550,000. democrats are no longer insisting on raising the estate tax on the very wealthy. they will now agree apparently to an up or down vote. that was key for republicans. still, both sides remain far apart on extending unemployment benefits and on the sequester. of course that is when the steep automatic spending cuts would slash budgets at the pentagon and other government agencies. let's bring in "usa today" washington bureau chief susan page and "the washington post" congressional reporter ed o'keefe. good morning to both of you and happy new year. >> good morning. >> same to you. >> the senate returns in about an hour. how close are they? what are you hearing? >> you know, i think it is conceivable that we'll have a new year's eve miracle and there will be a deal but i think the safe bet is against it. for this to happen in the next 14 hours you need to have no senator object to a majority vote, you know, any senator can start to filibuster and forc
threshold at $450,000 a year for taxes to go up. republicans are looking for $550,000. democrats are no longer insisting on raising the estate tax on the very wealthy. they will now agree apparently to an up or down vote. that was key for republicans. still, both sides remain far apart on extending unemployment benefits and on the sequester. of course that is when the steep automatic spending cuts would slash budgets at the pentagon and other government agencies. let's bring in "usa...
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>> if all tax rates go up, any deal can be called a tax cut. it's simple like that. if you go over the cliff, anything's a tax cut. >> if you do it now how's it interpreted? >> the interpretation will some primary voters is you danced around on rates. >> or they pass a bill cutting taxes continuing the bush tax cuts for under $500,000 a year. something they agree on. >> because of what bob's saying is they're worried some voters are going to look at that -- >> unaware of reality that they would confuse this week with next week in terms of the same results. >> governor norquist agrees with you. but some republicans especially in the house who are unwilling to make the plan "b" type deal. >> but in the end where do you think it's going to end up? $500,000? $600,000? >> it's going to be in the middle. closer to obama's $400,000. >> i think that's about right. sounds about like $400,000. >> which leaves out less than 2% of the people. >> absolutely. >> people say that's an average income. most people make about $40,000 a year. that's average. $40,000 and that's with thre
>> if all tax rates go up, any deal can be called a tax cut. it's simple like that. if you go over the cliff, anything's a tax cut. >> if you do it now how's it interpreted? >> the interpretation will some primary voters is you danced around on rates. >> or they pass a bill cutting taxes continuing the bush tax cuts for under $500,000 a year. something they agree on. >> because of what bob's saying is they're worried some voters are going to look at that --...
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among the points with headway, the tax hike threshold, the estate tax and extending unemployment benefits. the remaining sticking point is rumored to be the automatic spending cuts. collectively called the sequester you have been hearing about poised to kick in tomorrow. let's get to nbc white house correspondent kristen welker there for us. what was the point here? the president decided to come out and that bully pulpit can be a powerful weapon. >> reporter: certainly can be. good afternoon to you, t.j. the president using the bully pulpit. this is a part of the pressure on congress but also democrats who might be skeptical of this compromise that is coming to fruition so he came out today with middle class americans standing behind him and made the argument if we do, in fact, go over the cliff, if the steep tax hikes and spending cuts kick in to effect tomorrow, that the average american would see their taxes increase by about $2,000. this is an argument that he has been making for quite sometime now and appeared on "meet the press" this week with a similar argument and the event a part
among the points with headway, the tax hike threshold, the estate tax and extending unemployment benefits. the remaining sticking point is rumored to be the automatic spending cuts. collectively called the sequester you have been hearing about poised to kick in tomorrow. let's get to nbc white house correspondent kristen welker there for us. what was the point here? the president decided to come out and that bully pulpit can be a powerful weapon. >> reporter: certainly can be. good...
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all the tax cuts including the tax cuts for the wealthy expire on january 1. so that is sort of a short term advantage. these programs, medicare, social security are incredibly popular. cutting them is unpopular. republicans' basic agenda is to cut them. some want to cut them or reform them for totally good reasons that costs are rising over time and as the population ages they take up more and more of the economy and more government spending. they are at a strategic disadvantage which is they want to cut programs that are incredib incredibly popular. anytime you are set against the consensus of public opinion it is a difficult course. you have to acknowledge that reality. as long as obama and democrats have that they will have the leverage as we repeat the negotiations in the decades to come. >> thank you for joining me. stick around we will be speaking with you two later this hour. >>> coming up the republican who is not afraid to stand up to his own party joins us live. what does he make of the sudden turn in the fiscal talks? is there still time to hammer
all the tax cuts including the tax cuts for the wealthy expire on january 1. so that is sort of a short term advantage. these programs, medicare, social security are incredibly popular. cutting them is unpopular. republicans' basic agenda is to cut them. some want to cut them or reform them for totally good reasons that costs are rising over time and as the population ages they take up more and more of the economy and more government spending. they are at a strategic disadvantage which is they...
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tax increases and other spending cuts will fall into place over time. but not with unemployment insurance. unemployment americans who rely on federal aid will be cut off on january 1st, 2013. however, there is some good news on the unemployment front. the four-week average of job claims dropped to roughly 356,000. it's the lowest level since march 2008. but unfortunately, the national unemployment rate is still 7.7%. and if republicans in congress fail to accuracy millions of unemployed americans will be off to a very rough start for the new year. for more on this let's turn to the reverend dr. haines iii, senior pastor at friendship west baptist church. dr. haines, welcome to the show. >> thank you, professor dyson. >> isn't it ironic, dr. haines, through this entire debate the focus has been on the wealthiest americans paying more taxes, not people who will lose unemployment benefits come january 1st? you're the pastor of a huge church in dallas that talks about poverty and social injustice. what's your reaction to this? >> well, not only is it ironic
tax increases and other spending cuts will fall into place over time. but not with unemployment insurance. unemployment americans who rely on federal aid will be cut off on january 1st, 2013. however, there is some good news on the unemployment front. the four-week average of job claims dropped to roughly 356,000. it's the lowest level since march 2008. but unfortunately, the national unemployment rate is still 7.7%. and if republicans in congress fail to accuracy millions of unemployed...
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if you vote for this bill, it's a vote to lower taxes, not raise taxes. it's optics, it's semantics, but it's very important for house republicans. >> it's ridiculous is what it is. >> and we know that a lot of democrats will support this final package. so, nancy pelosi will bring her votes. >> although welch told me he didn't know whether or not he would support it. >> nancy pelosi has signed off on it. it's up to john boehner to deliver his votes and can he do it without amending it, we do not know at this time. >> all right, luke. thank you very much. >> take care. >> we'll see you soon, i'm sure. >> indeed. >>> well, there's already been grumbling about this senate legislation from both sides of the aisle, but texas republican senator kay bailey hutchison says that is the essence of compromise. >> i don't love it, but i think it is a very good job of negotiating where there are some wins and some losses, and it's about even. >> with me now, the agreeos political editor parry bacon and lynn sweet, washington bureau chief for "the chicago sun ti s times
if you vote for this bill, it's a vote to lower taxes, not raise taxes. it's optics, it's semantics, but it's very important for house republicans. >> it's ridiculous is what it is. >> and we know that a lot of democrats will support this final package. so, nancy pelosi will bring her votes. >> although welch told me he didn't know whether or not he would support it. >> nancy pelosi has signed off on it. it's up to john boehner to deliver his votes and can he do it...
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the payroll taxes is going away. making sure that -- things like unemployment insurance, huge stimulus for the economy, one of the highest multipliers, if that was gone we would have -- you know, we would be dumping back into another recession the president is a fan of abraham lincoln but creating a civil war is hyperbolic even for charles krauthammer. where is that guy? can we sign him up? where is he lurking now? the reality is this man has been willing to compromise to the chagrin of those progressives on and on the left so much of the political capital he's generated as a result of his re-election, again, in deference to the common good. he's looking out for the american people but the problem is here that the republicans to -- borrow the phrase here, at gunpoint. literally have us with -- if we want assault bans, let's ban the assault of the right-wing element of the conservative party against president obama by holding hostage american interests here. >> they got enough of that last year and clearly haven't. >>
the payroll taxes is going away. making sure that -- things like unemployment insurance, huge stimulus for the economy, one of the highest multipliers, if that was gone we would have -- you know, we would be dumping back into another recession the president is a fan of abraham lincoln but creating a civil war is hyperbolic even for charles krauthammer. where is that guy? can we sign him up? where is he lurking now? the reality is this man has been willing to compromise to the chagrin of those...
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taxes doesn't connect, he will be out there talking about taxes for the rich. and so my job is not to worry about those people. they will never take personal responsibility, what i have to do is convince the 5 or 10% that are independents, that are thoughtful, look at emotions. >> does mitt romney really think that people in this country want to be on medicare, that they want to be poor, or be disabled? that they want to have assistance? is that really the path that he thinks americans want to take? and most americans, i believe tonight, especially the liberals will be absolutely offended by the comment "my job is not to worry about them. i'll never be convinced that they will take personal responsibility and care for their lives." personal responsibility, those of you who are in nursing homes, who are in wheelchairs, those of you who depend on assistance by the government because we are a government of compassion. we have always been a country of compassion. but all of a sudden the republicans are putting up a candidate who wants to wipe away that, because we
taxes doesn't connect, he will be out there talking about taxes for the rich. and so my job is not to worry about those people. they will never take personal responsibility, what i have to do is convince the 5 or 10% that are independents, that are thoughtful, look at emotions. >> does mitt romney really think that people in this country want to be on medicare, that they want to be poor, or be disabled? that they want to have assistance? is that really the path that he thinks americans...
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if they're not going to agree to a tax -- holding taxes down for those under a million dollars, they're definitely not dealing with $400,000 so, therefore, let's go back to the $250,000. i think that hurt them, boehner. i think that's why boehner is being controlled, unfortunately, by the right wing. i agree with bernie sanders. very sad. i believe that boehner's a good man and wants a deal done and impossible with these folks. >> the finger's not only pointed at the republicans and the tea party caucus but also to some democrats. here's one of your republican colleagues this morning. take a listen to what she said. >> sure. >> everything -- it's just about scoring political points and i know that the american people are tired of that. they're tired of all of us. i understand that. we just make -- used car sales men look good. that's the only group below us. we have to get our act together and prove to the american people that we can regain the trust that they once had in us and get the job done. >> yeah. the perception -- go ahead, please, congressman. looking at the can kicked down th
if they're not going to agree to a tax -- holding taxes down for those under a million dollars, they're definitely not dealing with $400,000 so, therefore, let's go back to the $250,000. i think that hurt them, boehner. i think that's why boehner is being controlled, unfortunately, by the right wing. i agree with bernie sanders. very sad. i believe that boehner's a good man and wants a deal done and impossible with these folks. >> the finger's not only pointed at the republicans and the...
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is the last effort that we had to tax the rich and it's backfired to where it now taxes everybody, or almost everybody. and so it desperately needed -- needed a fix. now we're talking about taxing the rich again. i hope that we can come up with some collective ways that will be certain that the people are rich and that it will last over time instead of just for a few short years. in my area of the world, the biggest thing in that bill was the estate taxes. people in own land in wyoming that they bought maybe at $40 an acre now have land that's worth $2,000 an acre or more, and they haven't figured out how to pay the taxes on these few acres that they were able to scrape together over a period of time if the amount of exemption went down to a million dollars. and that's where we were headed. and at a million dollars, they'd have to sell off part of their ranch, part of their farm in order to be able to pay the taxes when somebody died. all the time that land is making a profit, people are paying the taxes on it. then when they die, they have to pay taxes on something that they would li
is the last effort that we had to tax the rich and it's backfired to where it now taxes everybody, or almost everybody. and so it desperately needed -- needed a fix. now we're talking about taxing the rich again. i hope that we can come up with some collective ways that will be certain that the people are rich and that it will last over time instead of just for a few short years. in my area of the world, the biggest thing in that bill was the estate taxes. people in own land in wyoming that...
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taxes. we just couldn't come to an agreement. look how great the 113th is to start off the new years. >> and everyone gets to say, you know what? none of our problems will be solved. >> i'm over the fiscal cliff. i'm over you. i really am. >> i quit it, too. i'm with you, thomas. >> i wish i could quit it. >> this is political coward is at its finest. they have passed the bill that lets them do the things that they really want to do. republicans would love to eat into entitlements, but has no fingerprints to say, hey, we didn't do it, the fiscal cliff did it. >> this could be easy to do, i think, because they were close a week ago, then boehner put forward that gimmick on plan b. if they can't get this solved, how will we deal with immigration reform, which i this i is more politically challenging. >> these are self-inflicted punches, wounds, that they crafted to make them better, and they are failing. thanks for putting up with me too, this time. >>> a final salute to general norman schwarz
taxes. we just couldn't come to an agreement. look how great the 113th is to start off the new years. >> and everyone gets to say, you know what? none of our problems will be solved. >> i'm over the fiscal cliff. i'm over you. i really am. >> i quit it, too. i'm with you, thomas. >> i wish i could quit it. >> this is political coward is at its finest. they have passed the bill that lets them do the things that they really want to do. republicans would love to eat...
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then however it becomes no longer extending the bush tax cuts, but the obama tax cuts. president obama is associated with cutting taxes. there is political liability for them as well. the reality is they have to get off of this no tax increase nonsense. i read in the "new york times" the other day, no republican member of congress voted for it since 1990. do you believe that? we had two or three wars since that time? a tragedy at 9/11 and we had hurricane sandy. we had hurricane katrina and despite all of these, they are unwilling to raise them to support and fund our government. what does it say about the dysfunctionality? >> we will have to leave it there. happy holidays to you. joining me now on the phone, congressman gregory meeks. congressman, i just saw you downstairs in the lobby about two or three hours ago and you were waiting on a phone call to determine when you might have to go back to d.c. to hammer out fiscal cliff matters. have you gotten the call yet? >> we are still waiting. >> no word as to when you guys are going back? no sense of urgency? >> i think
then however it becomes no longer extending the bush tax cuts, but the obama tax cuts. president obama is associated with cutting taxes. there is political liability for them as well. the reality is they have to get off of this no tax increase nonsense. i read in the "new york times" the other day, no republican member of congress voted for it since 1990. do you believe that? we had two or three wars since that time? a tragedy at 9/11 and we had hurricane sandy. we had hurricane...
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democrats will say they need that much in taxes, too. and because they've already raised rates, they got those middle class tax cuts extended, and the rich ones expired, they'll be open to do hitting through tax reform, which will be easier for republicans to swallow. let's say they do get the one to one match. that will be an $800 billion tax increase for a $1.4 trillion revenue increase in total. so democrats could easily end up when all of this is said and done with more revenue than president obama was asking for a week ago. and it will happen if it happens, because over and over and over and over again, john boehner and the house republicans could not take yes for an answer. they had to say no to this president. so they kept delaying until they were weaker. they pushed negotiations from 2011 where they were very strong, until 2012, right after the president had won re-election, and now they're pushing to to 13, after the fiscal cliff hits and they get blamed. it is an odd way to negotiate. to get one republican view on what will com
democrats will say they need that much in taxes, too. and because they've already raised rates, they got those middle class tax cuts extended, and the rich ones expired, they'll be open to do hitting through tax reform, which will be easier for republicans to swallow. let's say they do get the one to one match. that will be an $800 billion tax increase for a $1.4 trillion revenue increase in total. so democrats could easily end up when all of this is said and done with more revenue than...
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tax cuts. but this is what we could get. i was out there fighting for you. that's how you win reelection. >> now, ryan, if, in fact, we go over the cliff, they go back home, they make these political statements to their constituents, they come back and pass something in the interim, some people are damaged, the most vulnerable damaged, will there be, do you feel, a political price to pay? or do they think by the time 14 comes around, it will be all forgotten? >> i mean, that's a good question. it's so hard to know, you know, what the landscape is going to be like in 14. f but there's no question that republicans are going to take a hi and they know that they're going to take a hit if this goes over the cliff. in fact, they've already taken a hit just for dragging it up. polls show that overwhelmingly, people will blame republicans for the negative consequences of this. actually, the unemployed are already getting hit. it inspires today. they don't get until january 1st. so for them, the cliff c
tax cuts. but this is what we could get. i was out there fighting for you. that's how you win reelection. >> now, ryan, if, in fact, we go over the cliff, they go back home, they make these political statements to their constituents, they come back and pass something in the interim, some people are damaged, the most vulnerable damaged, will there be, do you feel, a political price to pay? or do they think by the time 14 comes around, it will be all forgotten? >> i mean, that's a...
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the tax policy center. the annual income from somebody in the $50,000 to $75,000, about a $2,400 increase. jumping ahead to $100,000 to $200,000, the average tax increase, $6,600. tacking at that great divide of the wealthy, over $250,000, at least a $11,000 tax hike. over $1 million, more than $254,000. >> hampton, looking at that number, that's for those americans working right now. there are still struggling americans, millions looking for work and what's the fiscal cliff mean for them? >> reporter: okay. we have unemployment at 7.7% last month and mainly went down because people gave up looking for work and jdropped out of th job market and out of work six months or longer. 4.8 million americans, they're the folks worried the most about unemployment benefits not extended after the first of the year. >> as we look at that number, that's staggering for so many. we have a "the washington post" poll that indicates 74% of americans support raising taxes on the top earners in this country. with that support t
the tax policy center. the annual income from somebody in the $50,000 to $75,000, about a $2,400 increase. jumping ahead to $100,000 to $200,000, the average tax increase, $6,600. tacking at that great divide of the wealthy, over $250,000, at least a $11,000 tax hike. over $1 million, more than $254,000. >> hampton, looking at that number, that's for those americans working right now. there are still struggling americans, millions looking for work and what's the fiscal cliff mean for...
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you'll have a chunk more in your payroll tax because the payroll tax cuts are expiring. and obviously, there's going to be some cuts in government services because of the sequestration, but it's not all going to take place in the next two days. >> leigh, all of us are aware of the fact that most people at the top of fortune 500 companies look at these clowns saying, you know, this is ridiculous. you couldn't run any business from a variety store to whatever the way -- where they try to run the country. is there any immediate impact on the markets next week with their inability to get anything done? >> yes. i mean, i think that's where we're going to see the biggest impact by far. i mean, yes, the payroll tax will take effect. that will be one of the most immediate things we see. but even that, it takes two weeks to adjust your paychecks. you know, we'll spend most of the time with the tax cuts, repairing, restoring, trying to solve that with some triage. the market doesn't care about any of that stuff. the market response is going to be psychological. it's going to be dr
you'll have a chunk more in your payroll tax because the payroll tax cuts are expiring. and obviously, there's going to be some cuts in government services because of the sequestration, but it's not all going to take place in the next two days. >> leigh, all of us are aware of the fact that most people at the top of fortune 500 companies look at these clowns saying, you know, this is ridiculous. you couldn't run any business from a variety store to whatever the way -- where they try to...
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tax cuts. i think it's tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers. unless the hostage gets harmed. then people will question the wisdom of that strategy. in this case, the hostage was the american people. and i was not willing to see them get harmed. now, is this the deal i would have preferred? no. but this compromise does make a serious down payment on the deficit reduction we need. most importantly, it will allow us to avoid default and end the crisis that washington imposed on the rest of america. it ensures also that we will not face this same kind of crisis again in six months or eight months or 12 months. and it will begin to lift the cloud of debt and the cloud of uncertainty that hangs over our economy. >> it's a real disappointment today. i'm sorry that the so-called super committee was not able to do its work because this makes it much more difficult to achieve the deficit reduction targets that must be done. what happens next is there will be $1.2 trillion reduction in spending t
tax cuts. i think it's tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers. unless the hostage gets harmed. then people will question the wisdom of that strategy. in this case, the hostage was the american people. and i was not willing to see them get harmed. now, is this the deal i would have preferred? no. but this compromise does make a serious down payment on the deficit reduction we need. most importantly, it will allow us to avoid default and end the crisis that washington imposed on the rest...
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tax bills -- and this is going to fundamentally be a tax bill when we pass it. they have to begin in the house of representatives. they can't originate in the white house. the president can't write legislation or pass it himself. the founders would have been shocked to hear congressional leaders talking this way. but put that aside. mcconnell basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to washington today. he shouldn't have let them go, in fact. they're not here. they are not here. john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on firm financial footing. >> right. so that's pretty much where we are now. boehner's out, mcconnell's out. reid says it's up to boehner, white house can't get boehner to talk to them. it's kind of a mess, senator schatz. and it is now part of your party. so what is the next move? there is late news tonight that president obama will convene a meeting of congressional leaders at the white house t
tax bills -- and this is going to fundamentally be a tax bill when we pass it. they have to begin in the house of representatives. they can't originate in the white house. the president can't write legislation or pass it himself. the founders would have been shocked to hear congressional leaders talking this way. but put that aside. mcconnell basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to...
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the bush tax cuts will expire. everyone, even republicans know if we go over the cliff, the bush tax cuts will be restored for at least 98% of americans. payroll taxes will go back to normal in 2013. the payroll tax cut was always intended to be a temporary measure. the alternative minimum tax would hit middle class americans. year after year, this has been fixed by lawmakers and like everything else notice fiscal cliff, it can be done retroactively. the harshest effects of spending cuts could be modified in the first month or two of 2013. in fact, the defense department, the irs and other government agencies are planning no immediate changes because they're anticipating some kind of deal. that leaves the unemployed, extended unemployment insurance will expire immediately if we go over the cliff. a deal later in january could theoretically restore extended benefits, the immediate damage will have already been done. for many people, this is all an interesting charade. but for the unemployed it's the real deal. get y
the bush tax cuts will expire. everyone, even republicans know if we go over the cliff, the bush tax cuts will be restored for at least 98% of americans. payroll taxes will go back to normal in 2013. the payroll tax cut was always intended to be a temporary measure. the alternative minimum tax would hit middle class americans. year after year, this has been fixed by lawmakers and like everything else notice fiscal cliff, it can be done retroactively. the harshest effects of spending cuts could...
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these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax. so low taxes doesn't connect. he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for rich. that's what they sell every four years. and so my job is not to worry about those few. i'll never convince them. what i have to do is convince the 5 to 10% in the center that are inters, that are voting one way or the other fending in some cases on emotion, whether they like the guy or not. >> does mitt romney really think that people in this country want to be on medicare, that they want to be poor, that they want to be disabled? that they want to have assistance? is that really the path that he thinks that americans want to take? and most americans i believe tonight, especially liberals are going to be absolutely offended by the comment. my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. personal responsibility. personal responsibility. those of you who are in nursing homes, those of you who are in wheelchairs, tho
these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax. so low taxes doesn't connect. he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for rich. that's what they sell every four years. and so my job is not to worry about those few. i'll never convince them. what i have to do is convince the 5 to 10% in the center that are inters, that are voting one way or the other fending in some cases on emotion, whether they like the guy or not. >> does mitt romney really think that...
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Dec 27, 2012
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republicans can vote for a tax cut. democrats are in a stronger position because they have more tax cuts that they want. i would get familiar with the phrase the last train leaving the station which is always the last bill coming off capitol hill before the session ends. this gets chalked up with a lot of stuff. it could even be monday. senate has a last train leaving the station. mcconnell decides not to block amendments, gets to the floor of the senate, gets to the floor, gets passed. i don't think it's unreasonable to think that can conceivably happen. >> mike, we don't have a lot of time, but do you see that as being reasonable that mcconnell would go down that route? >> mcconnell, i don't great with steve. i've had january 10th in the pool for quite some time as the day they come to an agreement. i think the question is will the republicans have any leverage at that point to get the spending cuts and entitlement reforms that were on the table before they're going to give up their leverage? and .i think they're goin
republicans can vote for a tax cut. democrats are in a stronger position because they have more tax cuts that they want. i would get familiar with the phrase the last train leaving the station which is always the last bill coming off capitol hill before the session ends. this gets chalked up with a lot of stuff. it could even be monday. senate has a last train leaving the station. mcconnell decides not to block amendments, gets to the floor of the senate, gets to the floor, gets passed. i don't...